1 00:00:23,159 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:29,019 --> 00:00:26,019 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:31,839 --> 00:00:29,029 episode number 410 for the twenty eighth 4 00:00:33,270 --> 00:00:31,849 of august 2016 Richard Saunders here 5 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:33,280 with you from Sydney Australia 6 00:00:39,069 --> 00:00:36,290 surrounded today by the skeptics own 7 00:00:41,650 --> 00:00:39,079 cats Henrietta and Maude who aren't my 8 00:00:43,950 --> 00:00:41,660 feet I've come into a different part of 9 00:00:46,090 --> 00:00:43,960 the studio today to do the recording and 10 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:46,100 right near their cat poster they're 11 00:00:50,410 --> 00:00:47,690 giving me funny looks at the moment 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:50,420 Thank You Heidi Robinson for taking over 13 00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:52,850 the skeptic zone last week I was a bit 14 00:00:58,209 --> 00:00:55,489 under the weather to say the least at 15 00:01:00,220 --> 00:00:58,219 least the day I can talk which is a good 16 00:01:02,470 --> 00:01:00,230 thing well depends who you talk to i 17 00:01:06,219 --> 00:01:02,480 suppose i'm not sure what hit me it was 18 00:01:08,499 --> 00:01:06,229 up no I know it's hit the hit me now 19 00:01:10,540 --> 00:01:08,509 it's a cat hello it's moored she's just 20 00:01:16,749 --> 00:01:10,550 jumped up to investigate the microphone 21 00:01:19,389 --> 00:01:16,759 hello I wish you could see this her 22 00:01:25,719 --> 00:01:19,399 little faces up and a poor why don't you 23 00:01:27,310 --> 00:01:25,729 sit down sit sit done it mm-hmm I don't 24 00:01:31,390 --> 00:01:27,320 know what hit me folks I think it was a 25 00:01:33,969 --> 00:01:31,400 chest infection but it was a sort of flu 26 00:01:37,870 --> 00:01:33,979 like I guess with the cold shivers and 27 00:01:41,740 --> 00:01:37,880 shakes and general feeling up money well 28 00:01:43,569 --> 00:01:41,750 yeah it's it's Henrietta now hello are 29 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:43,579 you going to you sit there and you sit 30 00:01:50,219 --> 00:01:48,170 there anyway these two cats did keep me 31 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:50,229 company through the week as I recovered 32 00:02:01,450 --> 00:01:54,560 more or less on the couch for about 48 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:01,460 hours hello mm-hmm you do want me to do 34 00:02:07,060 --> 00:02:05,210 the show don't you anyway they did keep 35 00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:07,070 me company which is nice anyway coming 36 00:02:11,289 --> 00:02:09,140 up on this week's episode of the skeptic 37 00:02:12,910 --> 00:02:11,299 zone we're looking at a story that came 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:12,920 to light in the last week about some 39 00:02:18,430 --> 00:02:15,410 brave parents who posted a video of 40 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:18,440 their poor young daughter suffering the 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:20,810 effects of whooping cough as a warning 42 00:02:25,890 --> 00:02:22,370 to other parents it was a very 43 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:25,900 courageous thing for them to do and as 44 00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:29,690 we might predict the flying monkeys the 45 00:02:37,110 --> 00:02:32,950 anti-vaccination crowd 46 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:37,120 came out of the woodwork to condemn 47 00:02:41,759 --> 00:02:39,670 these parents suggesting of course 48 00:02:43,170 --> 00:02:41,769 ridiculous things like it was really the 49 00:02:44,970 --> 00:02:43,180 vaccination that gave their daughter 50 00:02:47,130 --> 00:02:44,980 whooping cough and probably a lot worse 51 00:02:51,390 --> 00:02:47,140 and we're going to be reading the story 52 00:02:53,759 --> 00:02:51,400 of this report as it was covered at news 53 00:02:57,660 --> 00:02:53,769 comdata you with some audio from the 54 00:03:00,180 --> 00:02:57,670 channel 7 TV news following that it's 55 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:00,190 Heidi Robertson the raw skeptic when 56 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:01,930 she's not hosting the skeptic zone she's 57 00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:04,390 doing reports more reports from Brisbane 58 00:03:08,309 --> 00:03:06,670 skeptic camp this week she's speaking to 59 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:08,319 Natalie Carrington a teacher an English 60 00:03:17,059 --> 00:03:12,510 teacher talking about or discussing how 61 00:03:20,009 --> 00:03:17,069 you can teach skepticism using language 62 00:03:23,580 --> 00:03:20,019 the language what what to look out for 63 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:23,590 what to hear for what to be wary of when 64 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:25,450 it comes to the use of language in 65 00:03:28,910 --> 00:03:27,610 critical thinking especially when it 66 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:28,920 comes to things like advertising 67 00:03:33,479 --> 00:03:30,910 following that it's a report from the 68 00:03:35,789 --> 00:03:33,489 Australian skeptics from the Australian 69 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:35,799 skeptics website skeptics comdata you 70 00:03:40,110 --> 00:03:38,410 about our concerns and when I say owl 71 00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:40,120 because yes I'm also a member of 72 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:43,209 throwing skeptics with chiropractors 73 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:46,810 Chiropractic and a letter written to the 74 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:48,910 chiropractic Board of Australia by our 75 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:51,609 president and skeptics own reporter Iran 76 00:03:56,129 --> 00:03:54,250 sir give and their response that's 77 00:03:57,750 --> 00:03:56,139 coming up a bit later then to round off 78 00:04:00,569 --> 00:03:57,760 the show more from a night at the 79 00:04:01,740 --> 00:04:00,579 Australian Museum where he and I were 80 00:04:05,490 --> 00:04:01,750 performing the mystery investigators 81 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:05,500 show a few weeks ago and in between 82 00:04:12,449 --> 00:04:09,510 shows we got to look around the other 83 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:12,459 exhibitions and stands and booths and 84 00:04:16,830 --> 00:04:15,340 outreach by various organization this 85 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:16,840 week Maynard's going to be looking at 86 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:21,250 crime scene investigation and science it 87 00:04:24,779 --> 00:04:22,510 was really interesting really 88 00:04:27,930 --> 00:04:24,789 interesting stuff and also he gets the 89 00:04:29,909 --> 00:04:27,940 chat to some people who came along to 90 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:29,919 see the mystery investigators show and 91 00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:33,130 to mitigate any possible accusations of 92 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:35,680 conflict of interest or a nip 'it is 93 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:37,270 amor anything like that the people may 94 00:04:43,060 --> 00:04:39,610 not interviews well they happen to be 95 00:04:50,510 --> 00:04:47,210 it's Henrietta once again hello are you 96 00:04:51,860 --> 00:04:50,520 going to hop down off the thank you well 97 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:51,870 I don't know how I'm going to continue 98 00:04:55,249 --> 00:04:53,250 on doing the rest of the show with you 99 00:04:59,990 --> 00:04:55,259 about I better take you and your sister 100 00:05:03,830 --> 00:05:00,000 moored to the laundry where your food is 101 00:05:06,170 --> 00:05:03,840 would you like some kibbles yeah okay 102 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:06,180 well I'm feeding the skeptics own cats 103 00:05:37,359 --> 00:05:33,869 from the website of news.com today you 104 00:05:41,289 --> 00:05:37,369 written by Vanessa Brown 25th of August 105 00:05:44,969 --> 00:05:41,299 2016 mother who posted heartbreaking 106 00:05:47,919 --> 00:05:44,979 video of her baby choking is bullied by 107 00:05:50,619 --> 00:05:47,929 anti-vaxxers online the sydney mother 108 00:05:53,589 --> 00:05:50,629 who posted a heartbreaking a video of 109 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:53,599 her five-week-old baby choking for air 110 00:05:59,819 --> 00:05:56,329 after catching whooping cough has been 111 00:06:02,559 --> 00:05:59,829 bullied online by trolls who say quote 112 00:06:06,129 --> 00:06:02,569 vaccination is what caused her baby to 113 00:06:08,889 --> 00:06:06,139 get sick end quote on Monday Sara posted 114 00:06:11,319 --> 00:06:08,899 the video of her daughter Heidi gasping 115 00:06:14,039 --> 00:06:11,329 for breath in an attempt to quote 116 00:06:17,019 --> 00:06:14,049 educate more people on the importance of 117 00:06:19,049 --> 00:06:17,029 vaccinations and quote now what I'll do 118 00:06:23,739 --> 00:06:19,059 is I'll play the audio clip from the 119 00:06:26,289 --> 00:06:23,749 seven television news on the story every 120 00:06:28,809 --> 00:06:26,299 couple of hours tiny Heidi T stops 121 00:06:32,799 --> 00:06:28,819 breathing turns blue and has to be 122 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:32,809 resuscitated it's unnerving vision but 123 00:06:36,729 --> 00:06:34,849 Heidi's parents want every Australian 124 00:06:38,949 --> 00:06:36,739 especially those who question the 125 00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:38,959 benefit of vaccinations to watch their 126 00:06:44,259 --> 00:06:41,149 daughter's life and death struggle are 127 00:06:47,439 --> 00:06:44,269 you thinking to yourself she to pull 128 00:06:49,719 --> 00:06:47,449 through yeah you read a lot of scary 129 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:49,729 things online about whether vaccinations 130 00:06:53,469 --> 00:06:51,649 are or are not safe but you have your 131 00:06:55,119 --> 00:06:53,479 child in the hospital stop breathing and 132 00:06:57,369 --> 00:06:55,129 you will change your view in about 10 133 00:06:59,439 --> 00:06:57,379 seconds Heidi who's too young to be 134 00:07:01,449 --> 00:06:59,449 vaccinated contracted whooping cough 135 00:07:03,699 --> 00:07:01,459 after her big brother was infected at 136 00:07:06,909 --> 00:07:03,709 daycare because her coughs were almost 137 00:07:08,139 --> 00:07:06,919 silent it was difficult to diagnose for 138 00:07:10,359 --> 00:07:08,149 those people who don't believe in 139 00:07:12,009 --> 00:07:10,369 vaccination is the proof there's been a 140 00:07:14,349 --> 00:07:12,019 major resurgence of whooping cough in 141 00:07:16,329 --> 00:07:14,359 Australia in recent years due in no 142 00:07:18,579 --> 00:07:16,339 small path to the five percent of 143 00:07:21,219 --> 00:07:18,589 parents who still don't get their babies 144 00:07:25,979 --> 00:07:21,229 or themselves vaccinated it's putting 145 00:07:27,809 --> 00:07:25,989 little tiny 2.6 kilo babies at risk I 146 00:07:30,129 --> 00:07:27,819 wouldn't want that on my conscience 147 00:07:33,039 --> 00:07:30,139 immunization was invented 200 years ago 148 00:07:35,949 --> 00:07:33,049 it is completely safe and prevents 149 00:07:38,049 --> 00:07:35,959 children dying from whooping cough every 150 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:38,059 time Heidi stops breathing she's in 151 00:07:43,390 --> 00:07:40,490 danger but thankfully dr. 152 00:07:46,870 --> 00:07:43,400 is now say her condition is stable Glen 153 00:07:50,020 --> 00:07:46,880 Conley 7 News and thank you to the Seven 154 00:07:53,529 --> 00:07:50,030 Network for that audio we read on quote 155 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:53,539 this video may distress some people but 156 00:07:58,659 --> 00:07:56,210 I'm sharing it to show just how scary 157 00:08:00,249 --> 00:07:58,669 and dangerous whooping cough is to 158 00:08:02,740 --> 00:08:00,259 babies who are too young to be 159 00:08:05,650 --> 00:08:02,750 vaccinated in quote Sarah wrote on the 160 00:08:08,230 --> 00:08:05,660 original post quote this is my five week 161 00:08:11,710 --> 00:08:08,240 old baby during an episode where she 162 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:11,720 chokes and stops breathing babies rely 163 00:08:17,230 --> 00:08:14,650 on herd immunity to keep them safe and 164 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:17,240 unfortunately we cannot achieve that 165 00:08:21,969 --> 00:08:19,370 without high vaccination rates unquote 166 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:21,979 sarah said that her son had contracted 167 00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:24,620 whooping cough after an outbreak at his 168 00:08:30,370 --> 00:08:27,470 daycare center he was tested positive 169 00:08:33,219 --> 00:08:30,380 when Heidi was just ten days old and too 170 00:08:35,649 --> 00:08:33,229 young to receive the immunization while 171 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:35,659 most people praised the mother for 172 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:37,570 sharing the distressing footage and 173 00:08:42,579 --> 00:08:39,529 educating those who are against 174 00:08:45,730 --> 00:08:42,589 vaccination others weren't so supportive 175 00:08:47,639 --> 00:08:45,740 quote I've had a few suggest that I gave 176 00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:47,649 my daughter whooping cough via 177 00:08:52,750 --> 00:08:50,240 vaccination which is not the case at all 178 00:08:55,690 --> 00:08:52,760 in quote she told news com delay you 179 00:08:57,990 --> 00:08:55,700 quote I'm not bothered by it we've done 180 00:09:00,760 --> 00:08:58,000 all that we can to get her well and 181 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:00,770 protect her end quote some of the 182 00:09:05,980 --> 00:09:03,920 messages Sarah received suggested she 183 00:09:08,769 --> 00:09:05,990 was to blame for her daughter falling 184 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:08,779 sick quote vaccination is what caused 185 00:09:14,019 --> 00:09:10,730 your baby to get sick and quote one 186 00:09:16,540 --> 00:09:14,029 Facebook user messaged Sarah with other 187 00:09:18,730 --> 00:09:16,550 messages saying quote it has been known 188 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:18,740 for years now that those vaccinated with 189 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:22,610 the dtap vaccine still catch carri and 190 00:09:27,610 --> 00:09:24,410 spread whooping cough they don't just 191 00:09:30,940 --> 00:09:27,620 get symptoms and quote they are near 192 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:30,950 constant carriers now due to the dtap 193 00:09:36,250 --> 00:09:34,010 vaccinations from 1996 Australia has had 194 00:09:39,579 --> 00:09:36,260 a non-stop epidemic for ten years now 195 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:39,589 and quote please get educated on the 196 00:09:47,829 --> 00:09:43,970 scientific facts the old dtp worked the 197 00:09:50,650 --> 00:09:47,839 new dtap doesn't work in quote another 198 00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:50,660 Facebook user suggested that if she had 199 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:51,889 her time again 200 00:09:57,340 --> 00:09:54,410 she never would have vaccinated her own 201 00:09:59,979 --> 00:09:57,350 children quote I have three kids all of 202 00:10:02,559 --> 00:09:59,989 which are vaccinated and if I knew then 203 00:10:05,289 --> 00:10:02,569 what I know now I would have never have 204 00:10:08,169 --> 00:10:05,299 done it in quote and quote I'll never 205 00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:08,179 understand how you can vaccinate and I 206 00:10:11,789 --> 00:10:10,220 will never understand how you can get 207 00:10:15,239 --> 00:10:11,799 vaccinated while you are pregnant 208 00:10:18,939 --> 00:10:15,249 educate before you vaccinate never ever 209 00:10:21,249 --> 00:10:18,949 vaccinate end quote another said the 210 00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:21,259 video which went viral shows a 211 00:10:25,179 --> 00:10:23,600 struggling Heidi trying to breathe while 212 00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:25,189 surrounded by her family and medical 213 00:10:30,849 --> 00:10:28,399 staff trying to assist Sara believes her 214 00:10:33,189 --> 00:10:30,859 daughter would have died if they didn't 215 00:10:35,889 --> 00:10:33,199 get her to hospital Sarah's husband 216 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:35,899 supported his wife's video post saying 217 00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:37,970 quote for those people who don't believe 218 00:10:43,569 --> 00:10:40,220 in vaccination he is the proof not 219 00:10:45,849 --> 00:10:43,579 vaccinating is putting tiny 2.6 kilo 220 00:10:48,249 --> 00:10:45,859 babies at risk I wouldn't want that on 221 00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:48,259 my conscience end quote despite the 222 00:10:53,049 --> 00:10:50,480 small amount of protest Sarah's video 223 00:10:55,329 --> 00:10:53,059 created she just wants to see her 224 00:10:57,699 --> 00:10:55,339 daughter get well quote she's doing 225 00:10:59,710 --> 00:10:57,709 really well today and we are super happy 226 00:11:02,379 --> 00:10:59,720 with her progress in quote she told news 227 00:11:04,659 --> 00:11:02,389 com delay you quote we were hoping 228 00:11:07,449 --> 00:11:04,669 hoping hoping we can go home this 229 00:11:10,569 --> 00:11:07,459 weekend but we don't really know yet in 230 00:11:14,289 --> 00:11:10,579 quote and that story was reported by 231 00:11:17,530 --> 00:11:14,299 Vanessa Brown and this certainly is no 232 00:11:20,859 --> 00:11:17,540 surprise to members of the skeptic zone 233 00:11:24,519 --> 00:11:20,869 audience I'm sure who would well realize 234 00:11:26,769 --> 00:11:24,529 once a concerned parent or parents posts 235 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:26,779 videos of their six children online to 236 00:11:31,359 --> 00:11:29,110 warn others of the dangers of her 237 00:11:33,549 --> 00:11:31,369 infectious diseases like whooping coughs 238 00:11:36,609 --> 00:11:33,559 the flying monkeys as we call them the 239 00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:36,619 anti-vaccination crowd will come out of 240 00:11:43,150 --> 00:11:38,959 their shadows out from under the rocks 241 00:11:44,859 --> 00:11:43,160 and condemn the parents and blame the 242 00:11:47,739 --> 00:11:44,869 parents and make up all sorts of 243 00:11:49,569 --> 00:11:47,749 mischief there but congratulations to 244 00:12:06,239 --> 00:11:49,579 those parents brave enough to put that 245 00:12:11,019 --> 00:12:08,769 we've just opened akwa ecology 246 00:12:14,619 --> 00:12:11,029 exhibition at Edinburgh Smew ziam of 247 00:12:17,019 --> 00:12:14,629 childhood you can shrink in size see the 248 00:12:20,139 --> 00:12:17,029 amazing cylinders two squares illusion 249 00:12:25,179 --> 00:12:20,149 live watch all your favorite qua College 250 00:12:26,889 --> 00:12:25,189 eclipse create your own illusions we 251 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:26,899 never tasted by magician David 252 00:12:31,569 --> 00:12:29,689 Copperfield and lots more we can take 253 00:12:33,939 --> 00:12:31,579 the exhibition anywhere so if your 254 00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:33,949 Museum science center shopping mall or 255 00:12:52,989 --> 00:12:36,499 school get in touch for more information 256 00:13:04,560 --> 00:12:52,999 visit www.a um it's the raw skeptic 257 00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:08,770 okay i'm here with Natalie Carrington 258 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:12,800 and a few very loud birds and the tree 259 00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:15,290 above us Natalie's just given a very 260 00:13:20,290 --> 00:13:17,540 interesting talk natalie is an English 261 00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:20,300 teacher can you tell us what your talk 262 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:23,360 was about my talk was about teaching 263 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:25,490 skepticism through a deconstruction and 264 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:27,170 analysis of the language used in 265 00:13:32,590 --> 00:13:29,810 advertising and media and in particular 266 00:13:34,510 --> 00:13:32,600 you are focusing on the importance of 267 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:34,520 teaching these skills and critical 268 00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:37,310 thinking skills to students yeah that's 269 00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:41,270 correct yeah so tell us some of the the 270 00:13:47,290 --> 00:13:44,030 techniques that you do teach your 271 00:13:49,090 --> 00:13:47,300 students in order to tell the good 272 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:49,100 information from the not-so-good 273 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:52,690 information we start by having a look at 274 00:13:57,780 --> 00:13:55,490 sort of the idea of widely accepted 275 00:13:59,650 --> 00:13:57,790 information versus accurate information 276 00:14:01,330 --> 00:13:59,660 just because something is why the 277 00:14:03,550 --> 00:14:01,340 acceptor doesn't make it true of course 278 00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:03,560 we have a look at the way that language 279 00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:05,390 is used so looking at emotional appeal 280 00:14:10,390 --> 00:14:07,940 weasel words goodness me there are so 281 00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:10,400 many to choose from the use of like the 282 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:12,350 bandwagon fallacy argument from 283 00:14:17,230 --> 00:14:15,110 authority those kinds of things what 284 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:17,240 what age do you think we should start 285 00:14:23,410 --> 00:14:19,490 teaching our kids about these sorts of 286 00:14:26,170 --> 00:14:23,420 things is any any age an optimal age to 287 00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:26,180 start teaching things well I'm not an 288 00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:27,830 expert in early childhood or anything 289 00:14:32,020 --> 00:14:30,560 but my understanding would be as soon as 290 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:32,030 a child can understand language they can 291 00:14:36,010 --> 00:14:34,370 well we see them starting to try and 292 00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:36,020 manipulate others using language lying 293 00:14:43,410 --> 00:14:38,750 and what have you so the earlier the 294 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:43,420 better yeah this is one of my one of my 295 00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:46,970 passions I guess is is to get these 296 00:14:53,950 --> 00:14:50,240 critical thinking skills into schools 297 00:14:55,330 --> 00:14:53,960 because the way I see it I don't know if 298 00:14:58,360 --> 00:14:55,340 you agree or not but there's it's 299 00:15:02,050 --> 00:14:58,370 probably the only way that we are going 300 00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:02,060 to have a generation in the future of 301 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:05,300 people that that don't fall for the 302 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:07,160 pseudoscience or don't propagate the 303 00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:09,130 pseudoscience what do you think 304 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:10,480 well I definitely agree with that 305 00:15:15,420 --> 00:15:13,330 education is one of the most potent 306 00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:15,430 tools we have at our disposal to try and 307 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:18,430 combat woo and suicides alright so what 308 00:15:23,610 --> 00:15:20,890 what are some of the emotional appeals 309 00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:23,620 you mentioned desires and fears that 310 00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:26,440 that he use a lot in advertising can you 311 00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:29,620 give us an example of of an emotional 312 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:31,750 appeal that you see in advertising a lot 313 00:15:35,940 --> 00:15:33,610 well particularly in political 314 00:15:38,190 --> 00:15:35,950 advertising we have the the emotional 315 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:38,200 appeal of fear of what happens if the 316 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:40,300 other team gets voted in both political 317 00:15:45,330 --> 00:15:43,210 parties were using it rampantly during 318 00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:45,340 their election campaigns in the last few 319 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:50,320 weeks and it's it's quite a quite a 320 00:15:57,690 --> 00:15:53,620 profound tactic playing on the fear of 321 00:16:00,420 --> 00:15:57,700 of whichever group is watching the ad 322 00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:00,430 for what happens if labor gets in then 323 00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:02,230 then small businesses will go under what 324 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:03,760 happens if you liberals that get in then 325 00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:06,070 poor people will starve you also talked 326 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:09,310 a little bit about weasel words where do 327 00:16:13,130 --> 00:16:11,290 you see weezer words being used most 328 00:16:15,870 --> 00:16:13,140 often and what kind of ways are words 329 00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:15,880 I'd say it's most prevalent in in 330 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:17,710 political advertising having a look at 331 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:19,930 you know that the fact that we the words 332 00:16:23,130 --> 00:16:21,850 he used to avoid making outright 333 00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:23,140 statements so we see it a lot in 334 00:16:28,350 --> 00:16:25,240 political promises you know let's let's 335 00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:28,360 put 350 million year of pounds a week 336 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:31,900 into the NHS says nigel farage and then 337 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:34,210 he reneged on that because it wasn't 338 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:35,530 actually a promise it was a suggestion 339 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:36,970 because the use of the world legs that's 340 00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:38,710 the example that I used if I talk but 341 00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:42,580 there are many others yeah I say it a 342 00:16:49,620 --> 00:16:47,350 lot in in the health health profession 343 00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:49,630 especially alternative medicine like 344 00:16:53,790 --> 00:16:52,240 naturopaths and homeopaths and I think 345 00:16:56,190 --> 00:16:53,800 one of the audience members also note 346 00:16:59,100 --> 00:16:56,200 that point that they use weasel words 347 00:17:01,980 --> 00:16:59,110 like this male help with this condition 348 00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:01,990 may help with that condition is that 349 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:03,880 your experience too if you come across 350 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:06,250 that I have seen that a lot and I think 351 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:07,810 the reason they do it is because it 352 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:09,850 basically protects them against the 353 00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:11,290 liability if they make an outright claim 354 00:17:15,090 --> 00:17:13,540 this will cure your cancer then when it 355 00:17:17,130 --> 00:17:15,100 doesn't cure your cancer people can 356 00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:17,140 bring suits against the person who is 357 00:17:19,620 --> 00:17:19,030 propagating that claim if they only use 358 00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:19,630 really 359 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:22,360 the ambiguous terms like may or might or 360 00:17:27,059 --> 00:17:24,670 could then you know that the lower 361 00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:27,069 modality language lends itself to not 362 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:28,720 having litigation circuit boards against 363 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:31,210 them for false advertising and hence the 364 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:32,890 term weasel words because it is very 365 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:35,410 weaselly type behavior isn't it it is 366 00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:38,050 indeed well thank you very much Natalie 367 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:41,260 for joining us and is this your first 368 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:44,410 skeptic app this year it's the third 1 369 00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:46,570 i've been to as an attendant first time 370 00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:48,550 I've spoken at one well it was an 371 00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:51,880 excellent talk and if people want to get 372 00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:53,590 in touch with you or find out more about 373 00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:56,320 you where can they go I am on fed skill 374 00:18:01,320 --> 00:17:57,760 can I am on Twitter but I'm not very 375 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:01,330 active on either well maybe maybe 376 00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:03,130 listeners will catch up with you at some 377 00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:05,470 skeptic events in the future thanks 378 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:07,150 again for joining us you're most welcome 379 00:18:28,620 --> 00:18:26,290 thank you sigh con las vegas no it's not 380 00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,630 an illusion sigh con is coming to vegas 381 00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:30,880 and you're not just hearing things for 382 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:32,830 too long skeptics have been wandering 383 00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:35,050 the desert parched and aimless wandering 384 00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:38,470 when oh when will they find an oasis but 385 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:40,540 just on the horizon hope beckons at last 386 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:42,130 a chance for critical thinkers from 387 00:18:45,870 --> 00:18:43,930 around the world to celebrate with the 388 00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:45,880 brightest minds and biggest 389 00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:47,880 personalities and science and skepticism 390 00:18:57,330 --> 00:18:51,550 it's no Mirage it's psych on 2016 and 391 00:19:00,000 --> 00:18:57,340 this time it's in Vegas October the 27th 392 00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:00,010 to the 30th come to the Excalibur Hotel 393 00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:01,990 and Casino in Las Vegas where brilliant 394 00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:03,430 speakers will make the City of Light 395 00:19:09,030 --> 00:19:06,880 truly shine with skeptic stars like 396 00:19:11,370 --> 00:19:09,040 evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins 397 00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:11,380 science education champion Eugenie Scott 398 00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:14,260 30 astronomer Jill tarter and many more 399 00:19:18,370 --> 00:19:15,140 to be announced 400 00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:18,380 and yes James the amazing Randi will be 401 00:19:25,390 --> 00:19:22,790 there to Saigon 2016 is a production of 402 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:25,400 the committee for skeptical inquiry the 403 00:19:29,770 --> 00:19:27,290 people who bring you the skeptical 404 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:29,780 Inquirer magazine the group that began 405 00:19:34,750 --> 00:19:32,570 organized skepticism a generation ago 406 00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:34,760 and what better location for a 407 00:19:40,780 --> 00:19:37,760 conference of skeptics than a city full 408 00:19:43,060 --> 00:19:40,790 of illusions don't wait unlike claims of 409 00:19:45,130 --> 00:19:43,070 celebrity psychics conspiracy theorists 410 00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:45,140 and ultimate hucksters this is no 411 00:19:54,250 --> 00:19:47,780 illusion psyche on is real register now 412 00:20:13,620 --> 00:19:54,260 at wwc conference org at CSI conference 413 00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:15,760 from the website of the cerulean 414 00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:19,190 skeptics skeptics calm today you by Tim 415 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:22,960 mendham and her answer give dated august 416 00:20:30,490 --> 00:20:27,770 twenty-third 2016 Cairo board responds 417 00:20:32,620 --> 00:20:30,500 to skeptics concerns following the 418 00:20:35,410 --> 00:20:32,630 revelation of chiropractor Ian 419 00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:35,420 rosboroughs cracking of an infant's 420 00:20:39,850 --> 00:20:38,390 spine on YouTube Australian skeptics and 421 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:39,860 many members of the public and 422 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:41,890 professionals expressed their outrage 423 00:20:48,490 --> 00:20:44,510 the Australian health practitioners 424 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:48,500 regulatory agency ahpra and the 425 00:20:54,550 --> 00:20:51,230 chiropractic board of Australia cba took 426 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:54,560 action and limited prosperous areas of 427 00:20:59,800 --> 00:20:57,290 activity but that wasn't enough there 428 00:21:02,710 --> 00:20:59,810 are still many chiropractors promoting 429 00:21:05,260 --> 00:21:02,720 and presumably performing the same 430 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:05,270 practices as Ross Perot but with little 431 00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:08,690 if any reprimand we therefore wrote to 432 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:12,470 the ahpra and the CBA to express our 433 00:21:17,650 --> 00:21:15,770 concerns of this lack of consistency the 434 00:21:20,620 --> 00:21:17,660 in regulating chiropractors who act 435 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:20,630 outside the rules and regulations of the 436 00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:23,840 industry following is the correspondence 437 00:21:30,850 --> 00:21:26,000 note that we initially wrote to the 438 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:30,860 ahpra and the CBA on jun 17 2016 their 439 00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:32,930 response was dated June twenty-eighth 440 00:21:39,130 --> 00:21:36,320 but based on the postmark not posted 441 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:39,140 until August sixteenth as read by the 442 00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:41,110 President of Australian skeptics Inc 443 00:21:49,210 --> 00:21:46,190 Australian skeptics Inc letter dear dr. 444 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:49,220 menter Australian skeptics along with 445 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:51,110 many other individuals and organizations 446 00:21:54,910 --> 00:21:53,330 as for a long time had grave concern 447 00:21:58,450 --> 00:21:54,920 over chiropractic practice and the 448 00:22:00,490 --> 00:21:58,460 management of the profession in 2013 we 449 00:22:03,010 --> 00:22:00,500 awarded our bent spoon award to both the 450 00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:03,020 chiropractic Board of Australia CBA and 451 00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:04,880 the chiropractor's Association of 452 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:08,000 Australia CAA for blatantly ignoring the 453 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:10,250 restrictions set by both groups on what 454 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:11,810 the members of the profession could 455 00:22:16,570 --> 00:22:13,730 promote in terms of non evidence-based 456 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:16,580 treatments this was not just the case of 457 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:18,290 focusing on rogue elements within the 458 00:22:23,170 --> 00:22:21,110 industry members of the CIA's on board 459 00:22:26,350 --> 00:22:23,180 were ignoring their organizations on 460 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:26,360 instructions more recently we have 461 00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:28,010 seen evidence of widespread use of 462 00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:29,990 disputed debunked and totally 463 00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:33,260 unsubstantiated evidence for a range of 464 00:22:38,110 --> 00:22:35,200 chiropractic practices and methodologies 465 00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:38,120 these include many instances where 466 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:40,550 chiropractors are claiming treatment for 467 00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:42,050 a wide range of conditions that would 468 00:22:46,780 --> 00:22:44,270 have nothing to do with a spine and or 469 00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:46,790 nervous system resort to the totally 470 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:49,060 unproven concept of subluxation and 471 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,230 chiropractors blatantly ignoring the 472 00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:53,600 rulings of the cba on use of non 473 00:22:58,120 --> 00:22:55,190 evidence-based claims in their 474 00:23:00,550 --> 00:22:58,130 advertising and promotion now we have 475 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:00,560 the case of carp actor Ian Roseboro who 476 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:02,090 has achieved recent notoriety for a 477 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:04,370 video posted on YouTube where he cracks 478 00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:06,650 the spine of a four day old premature 479 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:09,830 baby Roseboro has been rightly sanctions 480 00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:11,570 for his actions and limitations imposed 481 00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:14,180 upon his activities Australian skeptics 482 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:16,910 applaud this action but the situation 483 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:18,290 seems to be that rosboroughs major 484 00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:20,330 failing was in posting the video of his 485 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:22,400 performing treatments the same 486 00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:24,020 treatments that many other crab actors 487 00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:26,780 also perform these are the possibly 488 00:23:30,580 --> 00:23:28,430 numbers in the hundreds and acclaiming 489 00:23:33,070 --> 00:23:30,590 at the very least if not performing 490 00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:33,080 treatments on neonates and infants that 491 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:35,990 are both are necessary and dangerous we 492 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:37,970 ask whether the cba will be issuing 493 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:39,890 restrictions and imitations on all of 494 00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:41,930 these as well or are we trained further 495 00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:44,630 the cba's heavy hand falls only on those 496 00:23:48,250 --> 00:23:46,670 who are publicly exposed in a bring 497 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:48,260 public outrage and shame upon the 498 00:23:52,660 --> 00:23:50,690 profession is Roseboro being restricted 499 00:23:56,170 --> 00:23:52,670 because of what he was doing or because 500 00:23:57,940 --> 00:23:56,180 he was caught if the latter that we are 501 00:23:59,860 --> 00:23:57,950 assured that there are many others 502 00:24:01,570 --> 00:23:59,870 within the chiropractic profession who 503 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:01,580 will be similarly outed for dangerous 504 00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,530 practices because we believe that these 505 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:05,120 dangerous practices are far more 506 00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:07,370 widespread then the CBA might be aware 507 00:24:12,850 --> 00:24:10,280 of or fear with these concerns in mind 508 00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:12,860 we are copying APRA in the a triple c on 509 00:24:18,010 --> 00:24:14,960 this letter we look forward to your 510 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:18,020 response chiropractic board of australia 511 00:24:23,860 --> 00:24:21,350 responds to australian skeptics thank 512 00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:23,870 you for your correspondence dated 17th 513 00:24:28,330 --> 00:24:26,480 june in relation to the recent action 514 00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:28,340 taken by the chiropractic board of 515 00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:31,940 australia the board I note the concerns 516 00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:33,950 you have identified about the 517 00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:35,870 practitioners who may have been 518 00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,030 performing unproven and potentially 519 00:24:42,210 --> 00:24:39,760 unsafe procedures 520 00:24:44,670 --> 00:24:42,220 your children and infants and using non 521 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:44,680 evidence-based claims in their 522 00:24:50,810 --> 00:24:47,170 advertising and promotion the public are 523 00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:50,820 entitled to receive safe ethical and 524 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:54,310 competent care from chiropractors the 525 00:24:59,100 --> 00:24:56,530 board regulates individual chiropractors 526 00:25:01,440 --> 00:24:59,110 and sets the standards they must meet 527 00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:01,450 the requirements for chiropractors to 528 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:03,040 provide care to the public that is 529 00:25:08,610 --> 00:25:06,310 evidence-based is the key component of 530 00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:08,620 the Professional Standards codes and 531 00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:11,190 guidelines to which the board expects 532 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:14,350 chiropractors to adhere practitioners 533 00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:16,930 are expected to practice safely and 534 00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:19,060 within the limits of their competency 535 00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:22,480 training and experience ahpra and the 536 00:25:27,150 --> 00:25:25,360 board have a number of investigations 537 00:25:29,220 --> 00:25:27,160 underway in relation to the 538 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:29,230 practitioners making claims about the 539 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:32,260 benefits from or potentially performing 540 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:34,450 unproven and potentially unsafe 541 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:36,850 procedures while we cannot discuss 542 00:25:40,890 --> 00:25:38,770 individual matters to protect the 543 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:40,900 integrity of the processes on the way 544 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:44,770 the National Public Register is updated 545 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:46,690 with details of action taken by the 546 00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:48,970 board to protect the public feeling 547 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:50,980 provided will be in the show notes of 548 00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:54,250 this episode the board considers risk to 549 00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:56,110 the public each time it receives a 550 00:26:01,260 --> 00:25:59,200 notification in the specific case you 551 00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:01,270 have highlighted the action taken by the 552 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:03,580 board reflects the action it believed 553 00:26:08,430 --> 00:26:06,250 was necessary to protect the public with 554 00:26:10,890 --> 00:26:08,440 respect to this individual practitioner 555 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:10,900 based on the evidence about the way this 556 00:26:15,450 --> 00:26:13,210 individual practices the board will 557 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:15,460 continue to act on individual cases 558 00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:18,490 where it is appropriate to do so in the 559 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:21,160 interests of Public Protection further 560 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:23,170 information about the notifications 561 00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:25,690 process or action may be taken by the 562 00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:29,200 board can be located on the ahpra 563 00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:32,200 website including information about how 564 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:35,620 a notification can be made thank you for 565 00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:38,770 raising this matter with me dr. Wayne 566 00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:42,190 winter am chair chiropractic board of 567 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:44,260 Australia and that report comes to us 568 00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:46,090 from Australian skeptics written by Tim 569 00:27:05,570 --> 00:26:49,510 mendham and Iran's I give at skeptics 570 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:08,609 it crash go garberville a skeptic wish 571 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:10,570 to shock a desolate inches skeptic we 572 00:27:14,999 --> 00:27:12,129 service attack elbow Python hashanah 573 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:15,009 Garnica meet the skeptics on podcast ho 574 00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:16,570 gaya vision heritage from Tosh 575 00:27:20,909 --> 00:27:18,940 metropolis add to the manual Travie like 576 00:27:23,729 --> 00:27:20,919 oh she touched a critical gondola 577 00:27:25,229 --> 00:27:23,739 station an observer a I said 578 00:27:26,909 --> 00:27:25,239 nearly is 20 and then he can shake 579 00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:26,919 member travelin coca-cola taught or 580 00:27:31,049 --> 00:27:28,840 David upon skeptical starter shaft 12 581 00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:31,059 we're just info at skeptic push bond 582 00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:33,820 Hootie man / Allen film at the Facebook 583 00:27:38,909 --> 00:27:36,399 laudanum cottage amita facebook.com / 584 00:27:44,249 --> 00:27:38,919 skeptical star Shakti Mandela's volim 585 00:27:46,379 --> 00:27:44,259 entering data dharamdas venom hi this is 586 00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,389 garba raas co-president of the Hungarian 587 00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:48,399 skeptics society and chairman of the 588 00:27:52,619 --> 00:27:49,720 European Council of skeptical 589 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:52,629 organizations a solicitor of the skeptic 590 00:27:56,940 --> 00:27:54,970 zone you probably agree that educating 591 00:27:59,970 --> 00:27:56,950 others about pseudoscience and critical 592 00:28:01,560 --> 00:27:59,980 thinking is an important task if you are 593 00:28:03,389 --> 00:28:01,570 eager to take part in either of these 594 00:28:07,009 --> 00:28:03,399 activities we would be happy to hear 595 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:07,019 from you don't hesitate to contact us at 596 00:28:14,729 --> 00:28:12,850 www.skory.net skeptical hu we also 597 00:28:17,549 --> 00:28:14,739 recommend you visiting our Facebook page 598 00:28:28,580 --> 00:28:17,559 skeptic which tire shop or simply come 599 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:33,750 here's may not spooky action at the 600 00:28:42,270 --> 00:28:40,230 I'll look it's AG it's an infrared 601 00:28:44,779 --> 00:28:42,280 camera here that's actually giving us 602 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:44,789 images of our body and as we can see 603 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:47,650 Richard Saunders is as we suspected a 604 00:28:51,390 --> 00:28:49,570 vampire he gives off very little heat 605 00:28:53,159 --> 00:28:51,400 whatsoever so he you've got have quite a 606 00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,169 small heat signature there mr. Saunders 607 00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:55,600 I'm a bit surprised because you and I 608 00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:56,799 have just been performing the mystery 609 00:29:00,000 --> 00:28:58,090 investigators show i feel quite 610 00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:00,010 energized after that although my voice 611 00:29:05,580 --> 00:29:02,910 is nearly gone no look I i I've got a 612 00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:05,590 stranger pain in the middle of my back 613 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:08,320 so that can obviously only be my kidneys 614 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:09,940 shutting down and my imminent death 615 00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:11,650 Richard well that will make for an 616 00:29:15,149 --> 00:29:13,000 interesting segment in the next show 617 00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:15,159 which we're doing in 45 minutes now look 618 00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:17,230 at I mean of course I mean I always go 619 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:19,120 to that I mean you know something simple 620 00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:21,370 like you know gas or saying like that 621 00:29:27,539 --> 00:29:23,289 but I rule that out straight away we go 622 00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:27,549 to kidneys shut down because I think if 623 00:29:31,049 --> 00:29:28,630 you're going to be a hypochondriac 624 00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:31,059 you've got to go all the way I'm just 625 00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:32,260 trying to think now how to work that 626 00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:35,260 into the show okay dr. Google I think 627 00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:36,280 would be the way to work it into the 628 00:29:40,049 --> 00:29:38,230 show I think skeptics should always be 629 00:29:41,549 --> 00:29:40,059 skeptical of dr. google but I haven't 630 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:41,559 even gone dr. Google I've just gone to 631 00:29:47,250 --> 00:29:45,130 dr. paranoid well you say you collapse 632 00:29:48,899 --> 00:29:47,260 during the show then I can say okay kids 633 00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:48,909 what do you think is wrong with my night 634 00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:50,830 on yeah because I think a room full of 635 00:29:54,990 --> 00:29:53,200 children diagnosed some dick diagnosing 636 00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:55,000 me is you know just as good you got just 637 00:29:59,580 --> 00:29:56,320 as much chance as you have a doctor 638 00:30:02,450 --> 00:29:59,590 Google you'd have to get up the front I 639 00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:02,460 think it's a subdermal hematoma oh 640 00:30:08,970 --> 00:30:06,159 thanks kid well I'll just rolled up to 641 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:08,980 the stem reactor stall that's here as 642 00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:10,840 part of science week at the Australian 643 00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:11,950 is in lots of people buzzing around 644 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:13,390 we've got some robots here over in a 645 00:30:17,850 --> 00:30:15,730 corner and who we got here hi my name is 646 00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:17,860 Jeanette and have you got a tertiary 647 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:20,799 degree education have you yes I do what 648 00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:23,890 is yours in biotechnology ah and that is 649 00:30:27,690 --> 00:30:25,510 why we're out the stem reacted now you 650 00:30:28,919 --> 00:30:27,700 need to school me on this because as I 651 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:28,929 have said too many people I was at 652 00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:30,850 University for the day so I don't know 653 00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:32,740 very much so what have we got in front 654 00:30:36,510 --> 00:30:34,840 of me and it will how is it reacting is 655 00:30:38,159 --> 00:30:36,520 empowering something I was reacting to 656 00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:38,169 something know what we're looking at 657 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:39,910 today is a crime scene investigation 658 00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:42,250 okay so the kids are having a look at 659 00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,990 some DNA having some look at some blood 660 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:46,240 spatter analysis and having a you've got 661 00:30:50,430 --> 00:30:48,850 luminol over there yes we do now that 662 00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,440 I've heard that one of the problems with 663 00:30:54,510 --> 00:30:52,480 luminol is because it's so reactive to 664 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:54,520 human DNA that you could put it on 665 00:30:59,880 --> 00:30:56,530 almost anything anywhere and you'll find 666 00:31:02,250 --> 00:30:59,890 that there's a reaction to it in this 667 00:31:04,740 --> 00:31:02,260 context we use it just as a method of 668 00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:04,750 identifying the presence of something 669 00:31:10,650 --> 00:31:06,550 but it's not specifically identifying 670 00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:10,660 individual or any type of specific like 671 00:31:15,330 --> 00:31:12,340 but I imagine would be a fairly alarm 672 00:31:17,610 --> 00:31:15,340 experience if you just put some anywhere 673 00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:17,620 on in your house for example and you'd 674 00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:19,840 probably be quite concerned look I've 675 00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:21,760 never tried that it's probably what I do 676 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:24,310 do and that's pretty cool yeah it really 677 00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:26,370 goes off under the black light so it's 678 00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:28,960 reacting with what a human Amazon's are 679 00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:31,150 reacting with my understandings it takes 680 00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:35,320 up free radicals from oxygen right that 681 00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:36,790 is very cool there and you've also got 682 00:31:40,110 --> 00:31:38,230 some other exhibits here to do with a 683 00:31:43,290 --> 00:31:40,120 getting DNA what do we got going on here 684 00:31:45,390 --> 00:31:43,300 we've got DNA electrophoresis so both of 685 00:31:47,340 --> 00:31:45,400 these are DNA check for esa's ok now 686 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:47,350 just explain that for myself and for the 687 00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:49,330 listener at home that that big word 688 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:51,640 means so DNA electrophoresis is 689 00:31:57,330 --> 00:31:53,410 essentially a method for separating out 690 00:31:59,890 --> 00:31:57,340 well in DNA complex mixtures of DNA so 691 00:32:03,430 --> 00:31:59,900 DNA's of a range of sizes 692 00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:03,440 and is that mitochondrial DNA or in this 693 00:32:10,090 --> 00:32:08,750 context it'll be chromosomal DNA and our 694 00:32:13,630 --> 00:32:10,100 buddy can be used for any type of demon 695 00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:13,640 so how fast can you do a DNA test now if 696 00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:15,200 you're trying to identify someone how 697 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:17,840 faster they got the test down to I'm not 698 00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:19,730 really familiar with that specifically 699 00:32:23,740 --> 00:32:22,550 okay but it certainly is really 700 00:32:25,270 --> 00:32:23,750 interesting in what you're doing here 701 00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:25,280 and there's this this here what is going 702 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:27,110 on here it looks like it looks like 703 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:29,210 electrolysis with something going on in 704 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:30,890 the middle there it looks like it's 705 00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:33,050 showing a DNA sequence is it well in 706 00:32:37,660 --> 00:32:35,270 this case it's actually a simulation 707 00:32:40,450 --> 00:32:37,670 using dies instead of dinner okay good 708 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:40,460 so we use dies because DNA is colorless 709 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:42,530 so you can actually see the dyes running 710 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:44,090 and it shows the method of 711 00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:46,490 electrophoresis and who you here 712 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:49,430 representing today this is the company 713 00:32:53,770 --> 00:32:51,290 called stem reactor so their main 714 00:32:55,060 --> 00:32:53,780 clients would be law enforcement or who 715 00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:55,070 else would want the sort of thing I know 716 00:32:58,660 --> 00:32:56,510 it's mostly for schools to bring this 717 00:33:00,220 --> 00:32:58,670 technology to see you right and so 718 00:33:02,620 --> 00:33:00,230 people can get a bit more about their 719 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:02,630 hands on DNA because well they reckon 720 00:33:07,510 --> 00:33:04,370 that's the next wave of you know 721 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:07,520 industrial movement sure yeah and what 722 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:08,930 attracted you to this field in the first 723 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:12,010 place and do usual degree this way I 724 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:15,440 just love science so cool that's the 725 00:33:19,810 --> 00:33:16,970 correct answer for science oh I just 726 00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:19,820 love science thank you very much and 727 00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,830 have a have a good afternoon yet I guess 728 00:33:25,510 --> 00:33:23,600 I guess the kids are really loving the 729 00:33:26,770 --> 00:33:25,520 alumina lon the t-shirt yeah the kids 730 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:26,780 today are having a lot of fun with it 731 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:30,530 thank you see you thank you actually 732 00:33:33,610 --> 00:33:31,970 we've just finished out our second 733 00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,620 mystery investigators a show for the day 734 00:33:38,890 --> 00:33:34,880 we've got a couple of punters here who 735 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:38,900 have we got aah Margaret right well I 736 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:41,690 well an anonymous face painted person 737 00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:43,670 okay now what did you make of the shows 738 00:33:50,170 --> 00:33:48,230 earth is okay yet that that's usually 739 00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:50,180 what we get we get yeah it's okay i 740 00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:51,830 guess i had nothing else to do like 741 00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:53,960 standing traffic so I came and saw what 742 00:33:58,810 --> 00:33:55,400 was a bit you like what was a bit you 743 00:34:01,480 --> 00:33:58,820 liked the most um well bit with the the 744 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:01,490 water finding it was it was pretty good 745 00:34:04,989 --> 00:34:03,770 but the kids in the audience were kept 746 00:34:07,719 --> 00:34:04,999 yelling out the numbers 747 00:34:12,009 --> 00:34:07,729 I know those pesky kids not much you can 748 00:34:14,109 --> 00:34:12,019 do but yeah yes yes oh yes oh you had 749 00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:14,119 you seen that done before um yes I saw 750 00:34:20,049 --> 00:34:17,929 it years ago okay yeah and and as a 751 00:34:22,649 --> 00:34:20,059 parent what do you think of the show I 752 00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:22,659 thought it was excellent and educational 753 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:24,889 we don't normally work to an audience as 754 00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:26,690 young as that so too so it's little bit 755 00:34:30,129 --> 00:34:28,129 hard to get their attention maybe if it 756 00:34:31,180 --> 00:34:30,139 had some pokemon or so or jingled some 757 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:31,190 keys in front of their face it might 758 00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:33,649 have worked better awesome puppies and 759 00:34:38,799 --> 00:34:35,359 kittens that might have helped these in 760 00:34:41,259 --> 00:34:38,809 kitchens yes yes you could try and hide 761 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:41,269 a puppy or kitten I'll shoot that is 762 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:42,649 true although it's hard enough carrying 763 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:44,450 around the bed of nails I think the 764 00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:45,649 puppies and kittens would make it more 765 00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:47,359 trouble than yes and you could actually 766 00:34:51,099 --> 00:34:48,710 have some fun with the puppies and the 767 00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:51,109 kittens and the bed of nails oh yeah 768 00:34:54,549 --> 00:34:52,639 that's a special adults show we're gonna 769 00:34:58,269 --> 00:34:54,559 have to work on there and did you like 770 00:35:00,009 --> 00:34:58,279 the show it was weird that's that's the 771 00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:00,019 reaction we like did you have a favorite 772 00:35:03,970 --> 00:35:02,750 bit at all no no yeah that's all I've 773 00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:03,980 got a favor bit of the show either when 774 00:35:08,349 --> 00:35:06,049 I think that has true okay the trombone 775 00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:08,359 the trauma the trombone a welcome 776 00:35:14,799 --> 00:35:12,920 addition yeah well yeah I like when I 777 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:14,809 stand on Richard Saunders to thank you 778 00:35:39,090 --> 00:35:35,450 Australian skeptics National Convention 779 00:35:41,850 --> 00:35:39,100 2016 will be hosted in Melbourne at the 780 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:41,860 university of melbourne from the 25th to 781 00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:44,530 the 27th of november with the annual 782 00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:46,480 dinner being held at melbourne zoo on 783 00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:49,150 the evening of the 26th of November 784 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:53,440 early bird ticket sales are online at 785 00:36:00,060 --> 00:35:56,770 the convention website convention dot 786 00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:00,070 skeptics calm today you and if you get 787 00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:01,990 an early bird ticket you'll receive a 788 00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:04,270 discount and be able to reserve seats 789 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:08,200 close to the stage we can confirm that 790 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:10,090 speakers for the convention will include 791 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:13,570 Lawrence Krauss Ed's odd Ernst Harriet 792 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:17,530 hall Michael Marshall Katie Mac and Mel 793 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:20,170 Thompson with many more great speakers 794 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:24,730 to be announced soon nicholas j johnson 795 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:26,910 is our emcee for the annual dinner 796 00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:29,410 information about our speakers is 797 00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:32,380 available from the convention website so 798 00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:35,920 that's convention dot skeptics com got a 799 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:52,610 thank you for listening to the skeptic 800 00:36:57,050 --> 00:36:54,330 zone and thanks again for those people 801 00:36:59,930 --> 00:36:57,060 are very generous people who help the 802 00:37:03,020 --> 00:36:59,940 skeptic zone by paypal or indeed at 803 00:37:05,530 --> 00:37:03,030 patreon no its Henrietta she's come back 804 00:37:08,060 --> 00:37:05,540 did you enjoy your kibbles you did hello 805 00:37:10,850 --> 00:37:08,070 she's right under the microphone now on 806 00:37:12,620 --> 00:37:10,860 a little stand those people who do help 807 00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:12,630 the skeptic zone via those methods and 808 00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:14,460 you can have a look at doing that at 809 00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:19,910 skeptic zone dot TV I think these hello 810 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:22,320 now her tail is that an earth could 811 00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:26,250 craft man your contribution each week or 812 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:28,590 each month means the skeptic zone can 813 00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:31,410 stay on air or on the internet in your 814 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:35,040 headphones that's where it belongs leave 815 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:39,090 for that alone I hope to meet some 816 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:41,370 skeptics own fans at the Australian 817 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:42,930 skeptics dinner meeting here in Sydney 818 00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:46,890 on the twenty-fourth of sep tember and 819 00:37:51,620 --> 00:37:49,350 our special guest speaker will be Lynn 820 00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:51,630 Kelly all about the memory code more 821 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:54,480 information skeptics calm today you and 822 00:38:00,350 --> 00:37:56,850 don't forget the regular skeptics in the 823 00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:00,360 pub at the crown hotel first thursday of 824 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:03,510 the month and i have just had 825 00:38:09,110 --> 00:38:05,250 notification that we're going to do 826 00:38:11,570 --> 00:38:09,120 another skeptic zone live in a couple of 827 00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:11,580 months time i'll keep you informed about 828 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:13,620 that will get some of the skeptic zone 829 00:38:18,380 --> 00:38:16,170 crew those who can make it and we'll do 830 00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:18,390 a live show a live recording of the 831 00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:19,620 skeptics aren't a lot of fun there'll be 832 00:38:24,170 --> 00:38:22,380 some giveaways as well i think that's 833 00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:24,180 probably going to be in october but will 834 00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:26,790 confirm that pretty soon ok these two 835 00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:28,350 cats are telling me to get out of their 836 00:38:34,690 --> 00:38:30,900 area i think they've had enough of me 837 00:38:38,450 --> 00:38:34,700 today alright you want some more kibble 838 00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:38,460 why doesn't that surprise me but for 839 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:40,020 this week this is Richard Saunders 840 00:38:50,020 --> 00:38:43,790 Henrietta and more the skeptical cats 841 00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:52,430 you've been listening to the skeptics 842 00:38:59,120 --> 00:38:55,740 own podcast visit our website at wwc 843 00:39:02,540 --> 00:38:59,130 aiptek zoomtv for contacts and archive 844 00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:02,550 of all episodes since 2008 and our 845 00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:05,280 online store please support the skeptic 846 00:39:10,339 --> 00:39:07,190 zone by following us on twitter at 847 00:39:13,970 --> 00:39:10,349 skeptic zone liking us on facebook and 848 00:39:16,130 --> 00:39:13,980 leaving a review on iTunes you can also 849 00:39:19,299 --> 00:39:16,140 show your support by subscribing via 850 00:39:22,099 --> 00:39:19,309 paypal for as little as 99 cents a week 851 00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:22,109 the skeptic zone is an independent 852 00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:23,700 production the views and opinions 853 00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:26,160 expressed on the skeptic zone and not 854 00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:28,230 necessarily those of Australian skeptic